Daniel Smith & Indian Yellow

Recently one of my painting friends and senior member of Avon Valley Artists - Yvonne Harry - has been engaged in an exchange of e-mails with Daniel Smith over the DS version of Indian Yellow. Essentially Yvonnes complaint was that the colour was simply not recognisable as Indian Yellow as understood by artists.

To give a little background it was originally, so we are told, produced in India in a revolting manner, cows being fed a particular type of leaf to produce a highly pigmented yellow cow dung from which the paint was extracted.  I have since read that this story is questionable but has been repeated time and again. As in other cases where the natural pigment became unavailable, or was ruled out on various other grounds, the paint manufacturers have produced alternatives under the same name. This then becomes complicated when there is no unanimity on what pigments to use. With regard to `Indian Yellow' the most popular pigment seems to have been PY153, although  Winsor & Newton called its PY153 paint `New Gamboge'.

The above swatches are from Yvonne and illustrate what she means about the colour being `off key' for want of a better description. I don't have the DS version being very happy with the much cheaper Daler Rowney version, which is PY153 until they run out. I have managed to buy a number of tubes so they should last a while!

Indian Yellow, as sold by all other makers is on the orange side of yellow - a deep yellow in other words - whereas the DS version  seems - to my eyes from the `Try -it' colour sheet - more inclined to a muddy orange. It is PY108 a different pigment to other makers. I realise that personal preference is a factor here and other views may differ.

The plot thickens when another of the AVA senior artists, Jan Weeks, reported that her latest tube of `Moonglow' was a different shade to the previous one. Jan is a very experienced and talented artist so she cannot be easily dismissed.

Different shades? What do you think?

`Moonglow' is a mixed pigment paint PG18/ PB29/PR177. A green, blue and red combination. Despite being a three pigment mix it has become  a favourite of many.

Yvonne was initially very annoyed at the response from Daniel Smith, which was rather patronising, but she is a determined lady and after further correspondence that changed.  In fact she has now received three 15ml tubes, Serpentine Green, Bordeaux and Carbazole Violet FOC as a peace offering and all is now well, although her opinion of Indian Yellow remains. She gave me a `sqeeze' of all these colours and they are lovely.

I think I should emphasize this isn't a general criticism of Daniel Smith paints. There is universal agreement they are excellent and handle beautifully, if somewhat expensive in Europe. The range is huge and there are so many tempting colours that are hard to resist, the inclination is to buy colours you don't really need. I've done it but then face the problem of how to use them. Artists palettes vary in size but  I would think the majority are in the 12 - 24 range. Daniel Smith produce well over 200 colours and do you really need up to 20 reds, 20 yellows etc? All it does is confuse the issue of what to buy. I think the Primateks are a different matter and would refer to the piece Bruce McEvoy of Handprint wrote about them some time ago. 

I do have one issue with Daniel Smith though. Sometime ago I read they had developed a method of making multi pigment paints behave as though they were a single pigment. This has implications when mixing with other colours.This applied to the Cadmiums where a `hue' equivalent was offered. I e-mailed them and enquired whether they did the same thing with other mixed pigment paints. I received no reply and a second e-mail also went unanswered.

A replacement for PY153, New Gamboge, Indian Yellow etc?

In 2012 the popular pigment PY153 Nickel Dioxine Yellow was discontinued, no doubt because of lack of demand from the chemical and/or auto industries. As has been pointed out previously makers of watercolour or other types of paint are very much at the bottom of the pile and have to take whatever is available. Although not offered by a huge number of paint makers PY153 was the pigment used by both Winsor & Newton and Daniel Smith for the popular New Gamboge paints. Both have already reformulated with a multi pigment mix. In addition Rowney and one or two others called it `Indian Yellow, supposedly a replacement for the notorious original Indian Yellow. Why notorious? It has been said, and repeated many time, that this paint was made in a vile process by feeding cows in India with certain types of leaves, that turned their urine yellow, and this was the foundation of the paint. Although this story has been repeated many times I, in my capacity as a (very) amateur historian, researched the story and discovered that it might all be nonsense with no real basis in fact.   

The Rowney Indian Yellow is a staple in my palette so I have to decide at some stage on a replacement. I still have a full tube so this isn't urgent. Handprint claims several orange-yellow and yellow-orange paints make adequate replacements but basically plumps for three, PY35, PY65 and PY110. Before I continue you will find that several paint suppliers still list PY153 and may continue to do so. Can you trust the labelling? Possibly but I have my doubts and in fairness one can't expect a manufacturer to immediately change the labelling for just a single paint. I notice that Winsor & Newtons new style bare metal tubes appear to have the information printed on them so that may mean they can change details quite rapidly.  Winsor & Newton have also said that their usage of pigments is so large that, when a pigment is discontinued, they run out quite rapidly.

The left swatch is Indian Yellow from Rowney. The two middle swatches are Permanent Yellow Deep (PY139) from Maimeri and Venezia respectively, while the right  one is Cadmium Yellow Light ((PY35) from Lukas. The closest appears to be the Lukas paint but, being a Cadmium, is opaque and also toxic. The two Maimeri paints appear more orange. Neither PY65 or PY110 are (as yet) widely available but PY65 is listed by W & N  as Winsor Yellow Deep, also by DaVinci as Hansa Yellow Deep and Arylide Yellow Deep. Daniel Smith call it Hansa Yellow Deep. So far PY110, which is highly praised by Handprint, is only on offer from Daniel Smith and Graham - Permanent Yellow Deep - Indian Yellow  respectively. This may change  in the medium to long term.. Daniel Smith call PY108 Indian Yellow.

What to do? I don't have to change immediately so will ponder the problem for a while. My inclination is to try PY110 maybe from Daniel Smith. Any corrections or additions to the above are welcome and can be incorporated in the text.